According to Ehud
Ehud Barak, Israel’s 10th prime minister, a former defence and foreign minister, and jointly the most decorated soldier in Israel’s history, is in Australia for JNF. He shares his views with Peter Kohn.
The global mood now is to the right, and as you state in your memoir My Country, My Life, that’s reflected in Israel. In 1999, your defeated Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. What would that take today?
I’m not sure if it’s really proper to discuss the internal politics of Israel while I’m in Australia, but I can answer in the shorter version, which is that in order to defeat the Likud government, you have to bring in more votes.
Would you be involved? Would you run for prime minister again?
I’m active in the Israeli public arena but I’m out of politics … I’m really worried about the directions we’re headed in, but I reject the idea that the discussion can be diverted into dealing with me. I’ve already been in every possible role in the country … I’m basically active now in order to draw the public’s attention to the issues.
So, would you absolutely rule out running for prime minister again?
I’d prefer not [to run]. But you can’t rule out anything in politics. Never say never.
You heavily criticised Israel’s Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked over her comments that if the High Court overturns the nation-state law, it will be “an earthquake”. What’s your criticism?
She said more. She said it would mean a war between the executive, the legislative and the judicial branches – and that drew my attention. In a democracy, under the separation of powers, a minister should not threaten the Supreme Court … Leading liberal Likudniks like President Reuven Rivlin, Dan Meridor … Benny Begin, condemned this law in the harshest possible terms … This law is a great gift to BDS supporters.
When you were PM, you offered the Palestinian Authority 92 per cent of the West Bank and all of Gaza, and they rejected it. Was that a turning point towards today’s stalemate?
No. Years before I came to power after the first Netanyahu government, I warned about the coming clash, which was inevitable. It was three years after Oslo started [being implemented]. Bibi had already given them Hebron and 13 per cent of the West Bank, and it was clear to me we were heading for a collision. The essence of my activity with the Palestinians was to try to avoid that collision and if possible to turn it into a breakthrough.
Some in Israel view peace with the Palestinians as desirable but not essential – what’s your view?
They’re surely right in thinking it’s desirable. But Israel shouldn’t yield to the fact that the other side doesn’t want an agreement. The concept of Zionism began as a rebellion against waiting passively; it was a statement that we are going to take our destiny into our own hands. We never waited for others to define us. There’s a profound difference between making war and making peace. For making war, one party suffices. Peace is like a tango – it takes two. The fact that the other side, for whatever reason, doesn’t want peace, doesn’t mean that we have to be frightened or paralysed by it; we have to do what’s good for Israel. And if for Israel, in order to remain Jewish and democratic, it’s necessary to delineate, then, let’s define a line which will include all our security interests. We don’t have a love affair with the Palestinians. We would prefer to have Australians as our neighbours. There is a compelling imperative to find a way for us to divorce from the Palestinians. Because if only one political entity, Israel, rules over the whole area between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean, 13 million people, it will inevitably become either non-Jewish or non-democratic … The reality on the ground will not be decided by what we legislate [the nation-state law] but by the demographics.
Do you think US President Donald Trump’s policies have aided Israel’s position?
Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem should have been done 70 years ago; it’s great he did it, as was coming to grips with the fact that the Palestinians’ hereditary refugee status is not congruent with reality … and cornering Iran – which has hegemonic and nuclear intentions – by building on the common interests of the moderates in the region … I didn’t like the Iran nuclear deal and even the US pulling out doesn’t cancel it, but sanctions are creating internal pressures in Iran …There is a lot of criticism of Trump within the United States, which I leave to the American people.
Do you wish you had these moderates to work with when you were prime minister?
You have to use opportunities when they arise. And now we have to be much more assertive in shaping this regional alliance. But this alliance cannot fly without Israel being ready to deal more seriously with the Palestinian aspects of the conflict. I don’t believe the moderate leaders have a love affair with the Palestinians, but their publics have, and these leaders wouldn’t feel safe in their own chairs if they were to publicly accept Israel while the Palestinians are still under full Israeli control.
You are part of Israel’s political and military history -– what do you regard as the most memorable episode of your public life?
It’s been too intensive for me to single out an event. But if you asked me what I enjoyed more than anything, I’d say at 30, being commander of our special forces unit because it was extremely independent, at about 50 being [IDF] chief of general staff, and at 57, becoming prime minister because even though there are limitations due to the political structure, you can decide what to do and act on it.
What are you saying to Jewish Australians about JNF?
My mother and father met at a kibbutz built on land bought by JNF from an Arab landlord in Jaffa in 1929, so I can say as a matter of fact that without this far-sighted action of JNF, I would never have been born … I recently visited Sheizaf, a new youth village in the Negev [the focus of JNF Australia’s 2018 major campaign] which is fulfilling the vision of [founding prime minister] David Ben Gurion, 45 years after he passed away, of settling the Negev, the future of Israel. Without the Negev, Israel would end up a city-state, like another Hong Kong or Singapore, not a safe haven for Jews and a homeland for all the Jewish people.
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