Shalom ‘at home’ in Australia
AHRON SHAPIRO INTERVIEWS ISRAELI VICE PRIME MINISTER SILVAN SHALOM
Regarding the vote on the settlement freeze, you weren’t in the cabinet meeting where it was voted on and I understand that you did not know that it would be voted on that day.
No.
Is it usual for the cabinet to vote on things without them being brought up in advance?
No, I didn’t know, and that’s a fact. If I would have been there, I would have voted against it. But still, it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the vote.
Were you surprised that [Likud MK] Benny Begin voted for the freeze?
I don’t judge anyone. Everyone deserves to make their own decisions.
But he resigned as minister during the Hebron Agreements in 1997.
So you should ask him what [This is seemingly worse] made him vote in favour.
What would have made you vote against the freeze?
I think that to place a precondition on resuming negotiations is unheard of. It was not put in front of [Ehud] Barak. It was not put in front of [Ariel] Sharon. It was not put in front of [Ehud] Olmert. And it didn’t stop or prevent them from offering very generous proposals.
So I don’t think it should have been put in front of [Binyamin] Netanyahu. And more than that, if we accept in advance the idea of a Palestinian state and freezing of settlements, what is left for final-status negotiations? Only Jerusalem and the refugees. That would mean, as I see it, a deadlock even before they begin.
Some people believe that this decision was made in order to maintain US support for Israel on Iran. Do you believe there is an argument for that?
Believe me, I don’t give interviews about that issue to anyone. A few Israeli channels asked for interviews even today and I told them that I don’t want to comment.
With everything else that is going on in Israel right now, why did the current [Australia Israel Leadership Forum] delegation go forward? Why is it so important?
I think it’s so important because it’s very rare to find a country that is so supportive towards Israel these days, and the fact that this support is bipartisan. I’ve read even that the Solomon Islands, which was in favour of Israel for so long, changed its vote [in favour of the Goldstone report in the United Nations] and it was discovered that they had received $200,000 from the Iranians.
In Australia, I think the support for Israel these days might be one of the highest, and I feel very encouraged with our trip here. I am very happy that I’m here right now.
We were hesitating for a long time whether to come because it’s a long trip, but we finally made it. I also learnt that it is the highest-level delegation ever that has come here. [It includes] the Deputy Prime Minister and many members of Knesset and well-known journalists, opinion-makers, well-known professors, so I think it can be very helpful to strengthen and enhance relations in the future.
I had the privilege to meet with Prime Minister [Kevin] Rudd, Foreign Minister [Stephen] Smith, Deputy Prime Minister [Julia] Gillard and I [also met] the new Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, at the lunch in Sydney, as well as Julie Bishop here [in Melbourne].
I found all of them very supportive, and I can tell you that I remember that support from my term as foreign minister when I was in very close relations with foreign minister [Alexander] Downer and prime minister [John] Howard.
I believe Kadima sent representatives as well as the [Israeli] opposition and [Israeli] government. Do you think it is a sign that this is something that’s for the benefit of all of Israel and it transcends politics?
I think they arrived here because they were invited. But I think all of us are in the same boat. But we don’t have to rest, we have to work. We found out that there are many campuses and students that still oppose Israel, and we saw the demonstrations in Sydney and yesterday here in Melbourne, where some of them even tried to enter and were blocked and arrested by the local police.
It shows us that it’s not something that we can take for granted. We have to make sure that it will continue and the high-profile [nature] of the delegation like we have here will help try and maybe address some campuses and some students in the future, and maybe explain to the young generation what’s going on here.
Do you feel there is something that your current government is doing that’s not being well reported that is very positive for Israel?
I think our efforts to ease the lives of the Palestinians are not getting the publicity they should get. I’m not only Vice Prime Minister, I am also the Minister of Regional Cooperation. We are working very hard. We have cancelled hundreds of roadblocks and checkpoints.
We are building and implementing industrial zones that will create jobs and will increase the trade and commerce. One of them is in Bethlehem, which the Palestinians are building with the French government with our help. We are building in Jenin with the German government and the European Union and the European banks.
Two weeks ago, we opened a vehicle crossing [the Jalama crossing] enabling at least 500 cars every day to move from the Israeli side to Jenin to shop. There was a very nice ceremony with [Quartet envoy] Tony Blair. We have 7000 Israeli-Arabs that shop every Saturday in Nablus. [We have also implemented an] agricultural project in Jericho, and we are now trying to implement some others.
This all creates huge growth in the Palestinian economy — a growth of eight per cent on average for the Palestinians in the West Bank. It’s in double-digit figures. So it looks very good that while most of the world is facing negative growth, or close to zero, they have such huge growth.
Without getting into specifics about any prospective prisoner exchange for Gilad Shalit, if it happens that there is an exchange and he is returned, do you support a new policy in the case of kidnapped soldiers, rather than what we have seen in the past?
Let’s hope that we won’t have more kidnapped Israeli soldiers and we won’t need more swaps in the future. But still, it’s very, very difficult to deal with that issue because it’s humanitarian. I met his parents in the Knesset the same day that I flew to Australia.
And, of course, there are parents of the victims of the terrorist attacks that were carried out against Israelis, and they are totally opposed to the idea of releasing the murderers of their relatives. So this decision, which might be made shortly, will have to be made according to what one believes is in the best interests of the people of Israel.
For many, it’s very much understood that in order to bring him back home, Israel should do everything it can. For others, they think it may be a huge mistake for the future. But the decision is still ahead of us. It might come in a short time.
The new Lebanese government has made a statement saying that they support Hezbollah’s right to have arms and act against Israel.
I’m very sorry for that statement. I worked very hard to pull the Syrians out of Lebanon. I was the one who was pushing the idea in Europe and the United States, and finally the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1559 [in 2004], which pushed Syria out of Lebanon.
[This resolution was passed] with the same coalition that now works with Hezbollah. Then the French joined the idea to push the Syrians out only after the assassination of [Rafic] Hariri [in 2005]. His son, Saad Hariri, is now in a coalition with Hezbollah and he’s planning now to visit Syria.
Unfortunately, the Christians in Lebanon, many of whom left because they were persecuted and didn’t feel so good there, [and those that remained], are always trying to become more Catholic and that’s why they are trying to become more nationalist.
The same is true in Israel. You know, in places like Bethlehem, which at one time was 100 per cent Christian, today there are very few Christians, as well as in the villages around Bethlehem, Beit Jala and others. In Lebanon, where there were so many Christians that the constitution stated the president should be always a Christian, the Christians have decided to leave the Middle East and those who remain have to defend themselves by adopting some very, very nationalist attitudes. So I am not surprised by that but I am very sorry for that.
Do you think that there is a chance that the cabinet would change its mind and end the freeze before 10 months? Would you support a move in that direction?
I don’t expect the government to make a decision to end the freeze before the time that it is scheduled.
Ahron Shapiro is the AJN world editor
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